Phew… I had an entirely different (happy!) post planned for today, but things have changed.
So I try not to be all hot-headed and argumentative about IF… it tends not to help anything, but I have spent this entire day in a FB war with ignorant people. Yikes. Feel free to skip if you’re not in the mood. 🙂
First off, big thanks to my little sis E (who also has a Dec. birthday – so sorry I forgot to mention you in my other post!). She posted a link about Resolve and IF on her FB wall this morning in honor of NIAW.
Now… I kind of got myself in a war of words, though I’m trying to just step back now and breathe. It’s just hard when people who haven’t even gotten to a point in their lives where they’ve even tried to have a child yet profess to know things about IF. My sis is a college senior, and I’m pretty sure the other three commenters below are all her age as well.
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E (little sis): Infertility affects 7.3 MILLION people in the U.S. alone. That’s about 1 in 8 couples or 12 out of every 100 of your Facebook friends. It’s National Infertility Awareness Week. Support RESOLVE: The National Infertility Association and people you may know who suffer from this recognized heartbreaking disease by sharing information and visiting www.resolve.org to educate yourself!
H: I’ve been told that I can’t carry a baby to term. It has turned my life upside down, I wanted to thank you for your posting and bringing up an issue society shames us from talking about. As a women I feel useless.
E (little sis): I’m so sorry to hear that Heather and I know there’s no way anyone could possibly know how you feel unless they’ve experienced the same situation as you. Maybe you can reach out to other women who’ve been told the same things as you have for support. It’s a shame our society seems to shut us down from talking openly about infertility and other reproductive issues. Help spread awareness this week!! xoxo
J (boy): I know this will seem harsh – but infertility is a good thing in my book. You have to look at it from the perspective of the entire world instead of from the POV of one woman’s hardship – we’re already overpopulated and if you consider resource usage, American children are precisely what the world could use less of. I understand it is a sad realization for women who want kids – but I’d urge them to adopt instead. There are plenty of children whose fertile mothers were separated from them – if you’re infertile you still have the ability to give a child a good life…just another way to think about things.
Me: J – you are obviously someone who never struggled with this disease. Why should YOU ever get to conceive a biological child? Why should YOU contribute to the “overpopulation?” Why should YOU not have to give up that dream of a biological child? Why don’t YOU “just adopt?” Btw, do you have a fucking CLUE that it takes YEARS to adopt and at least $20-30,000 for EACH CHILD?! Do some research and inform yourself before you talk out of your ass. You wouldn’t tell someone suffering from cancer that it’s good they are dying because it will help with the overpopulation issue. Get a clue.
E (little sis): You’re looking from the POV of the entire world? What about Heather’s (and men/women like her) POV? You basically just told her it’s a good thing that she got the most devastating news of her life-she can just adopt. Real nice. What’s the one thing you want the most in this world Jordan? You care about providing welfare and education to those who just happened to be born into a certain/the wrong socio-economic class, right? Well “it might seem harsh” but they were born that way so if they die because they’re starving and can’t work that’s fine. That just means there’s more food for other people and the world is overpopulated anyways…Ya, great theory. Infertility is a disease, just like cancer or diabetes. By saying it shouldn’t be treated you’re undermining the seriousness of the disease. Think about your strongest desire in life, and then think about never having the opportunity to achieve that desire. Are you willing to give that up and live your entire life based on the “world’s POV?” If so then stop shopping at target and stop increasing your carbon footprint for every can of beer you buy that was shipped on a truck and made in a factory…etc.
D: While the only person I know who’s commented on this post is Emma, I feel the need to comment. I can definitely see how infertility can be devastating to those set on having kids that are related to them genetically. That being said, while adoption can be very expensive so can infertility treatments, depending on the cause of the infertility. In vitro fertilization treatments can cost $20,000 per round and it can sometimes take a few rounds to get an embryo to implant properly. While I am not as up-to-date on the costs of other types of infertility treatments the point stands that they are costly too. The world is definitely overpopulated already, there are millions of children in need of a home, and adopting also eliminates the need for the woman to undergo sometimes risky hormonal treatments. No person should ever feel useless in terms of their gender because they cannot produce their own offspring. People are worth more than that today, especially women.
E (little sis): Are you willing to never have kids of your own Deirdra? Even if you could? To CHOOSE not to have a child of your own and instead adopt? The point is that infertility is NOT A CHOICE, while adopting a child is. Couples who struggle with IF have the CHOICE of having a child of their own TAKEN AWAY from them. Yes, adoption is an amazing and wonderful CHOICE. But it’s just that, a choice, and everyone should have the right to chose if they want to have a biological child or adopt-not be forced into one or the other because “the world is overpopulated.” The fact that both IF treatments AND adoption are expensive is upsetting.
H: The cost of adopting is actually closer to $60,000 to $95,000 are you people forgetting that an adoption lawyer costs on average $275\hour? And for those of you who think adopting here in the Us solves all problems did you know as long as the parents give up the children willingly they have up to 90 days in most states to decide that they want their kids back. Do you know how long it takes to bond with a child, an instant. And that 90 days is after the months and months usually around 16 months while the state and parents and agencys check out your home, relationship, finances, and job stability. In some states there are more questions to adopt a child then there are to receive “eyes only” security clerance from the federal government. As for ivf yes it can be $20,000 but many insurances are also starting to partly cover it because finally due to people like emma inferitility is being seen for what it is, a disease. I have always wanted to adopt but unless you have stood where i now stand dont you dare
Me:
belittle me and my hurt right now by telling me to just adopt. Although I may be more than my ability to provide a child for my partner or myself that doesnt make my pain or suffering any less by hearing from my doctor that its ‘not reccommended’ that i try to carry a baby to term, I face being just fine, being paralized, or loosing my life and that is after spending the last 7 months or so of my prengancy in bed. Now I could hire a surrogot for a cost of $40,000-80,000 but I still wont know what it will feel like to have a baby kick me or for it to do summersalts. its a touchy subject, try to not say something uneducated and mean if you have no idea what you are talking about.
D: I didn’t mean to offend anyone by what I said. Quite the opposite in fact, I was trying to be sensitive. I am also not saying that it is easy, in any way. While perhaps someday I will decide to have a child I do not require that I, personally, carry the child to term, that it to carries my genes, or that I feel it inside me. I wouldn’t love it any less. While IVF treatments are not quite on the cutting edge of science anymore, they are certainly not simple either. While insurance companies are certainly too greedy, I can also see why they don’t want to cover IVF treatments completely, insurance premiums for everyone would rise drastically. There is only so much money that can go into healthcare and therefore the money should be spent where it does the most good. There are other, simpler (and cheaper) procedures that can be done depending on the cause of your infertility. Also, unless there is an environmental factor that contributed to a person’s infertility (e.g. unforeseen drug reaction, water contamination, etc.) their fertility has not been taken away from them, that is simply the way the person is. (I almost lost my mind when I read that comment)
Me: Quite to the contrary, insurance premiums would go DOWN if IVF were covered. Currently most woman choose to pursue IUI first for cost reasons ($5k/try instead of $20k) and IUIs result in much higher risk of multiples (and hence premies and NICU time) b/c u cannot control the number of fertilized embryos that will result.
Also, ppl that are trying IVF have either tried and failed with the “simpler” options or have been told IVF is their only shot.
Also, someone born without an arm hasn’t had something taken away from them – its just the way they are, but does that mean they shouldn’t qualify for therapy or prosthesis or whatever they need? It’s ridiculous to say that one disease is more deserving than another of funding and treatment.
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So yeah, it’s time for me to just walk away from the computer and quit commenting, but I just had to share. I can’t believe how many people out there feel free to give a big “FUCK YOU” to people struggling with fertility and to tell them to “just adopt” b/c the world is overpopulated anyway. UGH.
Wow!! I'm irritated right along with you.
So glad I stay off of facebook. That's crazy and would have (well, did) put my in a rage. Wow, I hope I never say something so insensitive to anyone about anything. Oh, so glad I'm not on fb.
So fucking frustrating. Good for you for speaking up!!
It's really sad to me that so many people have that EXACT reaction when it comes to infertility. I just don't think people can ever or will ever truly "get it" until they've gone through infertility struggles, or have a loved one who has. I never "got it" before I struggled. In fact, in college….I worked briefly at a Women's Health Care Center that did minor infertility procedures….mainly drugs and IUI's….not IVF. I never knew what to think of "those" women that would come in all emotional and crying. I just felt sorry for them and couldn't understand why they were acting so crazy! In fact, I hate to admit it but I kinda looked down upon them…like there must be something wrong with them! Now, 10 years later, I find myself in their exact same shoes and I finally "get it." Good for both you and your sister for standing up for all of the men and women out there struggling. We need more voices out there! XO!
Wow. Just wow. Holy freaking crap. What the hell is the matter with people? THANK THE GOOD LORD that nobody that idiotic says things like that on FB page or I might have an aneurysm. Probably good to walk away. This just proves HOW BADLY advocacy and awareness are needed. But, can I just say …YOUR SISTER ROCKS! Very articulate and smart young lady, especially for these issues. Bravo, little sister.Boo, everyone else!
Since the world is overpopulated I say we kill off Jordan and call it population control.
I love your responses, Josey. You really represented us logically and rationally.And I notice J didn't have answers for: a) why cancer/heart disease/childhood dysentery/etc. aren't also great "population reducers" and b) where all those "millions" of children just aching for someone to adopt them are? Seriously where? Where's the baby warehouse where they're just giving them away.
The subject of infertility is "taboo" for several reasons, one of them being the fact that so many people do not know how to respond appropriately. Thanks, Josey, for speaking up for infertiles. Your sister is pretty amazing, too! Infertility is something that I would never wish on a single person, but it can only be truly understood through experience. If the people making the rude comments could walk in an infertile's shoes for a day (or years), they might have a different opinion on the subject.
Props to you and your sister for spwaking up. People are stupid and uneducated about infetility. F**k them!!
Whoa. That was seriously an intense conversation! My heart goes out to both you and H for being caught up in it. At the same time, I think you, H, and E are rock stars for your comments. E sounds like such a gem!
i know it's probably better to just walk away, but major props to you for standing up for all of us!!! i am amazed by the idiotic crap that comes out of people's mouths/fingers. it's too bad you can't fix stupid.
OMG!!!! I swear I would have jumped through the screen and strangled some of these people…stupid fertiles! Amazingly enough these people will probably have zero difficulty getting knocked up therefore breeding even more ignorance!!! You were strong to walk away! I would prob still be on there ranting!!!
For real? These comments are actually REAL???!!! WTF!! I have no other comment other that W-T-F. 🙁 Oh and btw-my E2 today was 787. So I guess I am in the "ok" range?
Holy crap..UNREAL! good for you for speaking up! but really wow, just plain wow!
World overpopulation is due to people living longer (it's not a big shock for people to live into their 80's and 90's vs. 50's and 60's) not due to people giving birth. The number of births per year is actually decreasing as our culture changes and more and more people are child-free-by-choice and also as those who do have a family are having smaller families (1 or 2 kids instead of "big traditional" sized families of 4+)I don't know how many times I have told people this, but I will continue to tell them until people stop making ignorant comments about infertility being a blessing to overpopulation. Or until I'm dead. Whichever comes first.
World overpopulation is due to people living longer (it's not a big shock for people to live into their 80's and 90's vs. 50's and 60's) not due to people giving birth. The number of births per year is actually decreasing as our culture changes and more and more people are child-free-by-choice and also as those who do have a family are having smaller families (1 or 2 kids instead of "big traditional" sized families of 4+)I don't know how many times I have told people this, but I will continue to tell them until people stop making ignorant comments about infertility being a blessing to overpopulation. Or until I'm dead. Whichever comes first.
I just read this thread on FB and it's heartbreaking to read the pain H is so clearly in and then read J's completely clueless and holier than thou responses. There may come a day when he gets it. Oak, thanks for the laugh. 🙂
Wow I've never read such hurtful and dumb words before regarding IF and adoption. Good for you for being the bigger person and walking away – it's obviously not sinking in with these people anyway.
Josey, I want to thank you and your sister for fighting the good fight on this one. This is partly the reason (though I feel like a coward) that I didn't make my IF stuff public this week. I can't take being the target for irrational comments right now. When I have my happy ending (like you will in just a few months), then I will feel strengthened and empowered to battle these people. I just dont' have it in me when I feel so helpless. You have an amazing sister…I can't see any of mine (including the 2X preggo one) standing up for me in that way. No one in my family, except my mom, has really gone to bat / managed to educate themselves. You are a lucky girl.
I can't believe how big of assholes people can be. They don't get it and unfortunetly maybe they should be the ones that do!
I want to friend your sister so that I can call all those people a bunch of fuck wads. One family having one or two children is NOT the reason this country is overpopulated. Ugh. I am irritated now too. Way to stand up to them!
Ah college…when your principles have yet to come in contact with real life!
Ugh! That made me really worked up too. I can't believe the ignorance that surrounds IF…well, I guess I can in a way because our society as a whole seems to be pretty selfish and lacks the empathy to support others in something they haven't experienced themselves.Way to stand up to them and spread awareness!
Good for you and your sister for speaking up!UGH, the ignorance astounds me!
So so mad right now. I think your responses were perfect. Some poeple JUST DON'T GET IT and it really pisses me off that they can't get off their high horse and stand in our shoes for one freaking second. Good job Josey (and Emma!) you've done us proud 🙂
I hate those FOOLS so much! Thanks for sharing. The comments sure did get me fired up! This Heather girl is obviously simple minded is making some pretty harsh and bold statements for a couple million people. I wonder what she thinks about the doctor's and nurses who work in this field. I Also wonder if she thinks people who get cancer should just die and not have treatment because that is God's way of not having the world be over populated. I could go on and on. This will all make us stronger.
Wow.. this boils my blood and I find it so very upsetting that so many people have the same opinion of these 2 fucking nitwits. I'm disgusted.So nice for you to have such a wonderful sister!
Wow, I feel steam is coming out of my ears right now. You go girl, for jumping right into that conversation. Thanks for backing all of us up!